It does not go well. Saruman, speaking from a balcony high above, stubbornly refuses to listen. Eventually, Saruman tries to turn the tables by inviting Gandalf, alone, into Orthanc, saying:
Let us understand one another, and dismiss from
thought these lesser folk! Let them wait on our decisions!
For the common good I am willing to redress the past, and
to receive you. Will you not consult with me? Will you not come up?
Gandalf responds by recalling his last visit to Orthanc, during which Saruman revealed his allegiance to Sauron and imprisoned Gandalf when he refused to join. He says "Nay, the guest who has escaped from the roof, will think twice before he comes back in by the door. Nay, I do not think I will come up. But listen, Saruman, for the last time! Will you not come down?"
Saruman and Gandalf both want to have a conversation. They even have a similar goal - they both want to be on the same side. What they disagree on is which side that should be.
Let's look closer at the specific language used. Saruman is asking Gandalf to come up. He is inviting him in. By saying "I am willing to receive you," Saruman is presenting himself as the powerful and gracious one. Saruman could refuse Gandalf, but in fact invites him in.
But Saruman has just lost the Battle of Helm's Deep and Isengard has been taken by the ents. Saruman is in no position to play host. He is defeated, and yet he clings to his pride and pretends that being literally above the others means he is actually superior to them. It's absurd for him to say "I am willing to receive you," when it is they who have come to his door in the first place. His invitation is irrelevant.
Gandalf, by demanding Saruman comes down, is trying to get Saruman to accept defeat and show humility. It is in his tower that Saruman first allied with Sauron, and where he imprisoned Gandalf, and from where he commanded his armies. Saruman must admit defeat before any meaningful dialogue can take place. Leaving his tower is a way of showing he acknowledges his defeat. Remaining there signals he is still willing to fight.
Saruman should have come down. He has faced a stunning defeat - the Uruk-Hai have been destroyed, the Dunland men whom he stirred against Rohan have surrendered, and Isengard is in ruins. Nothing but pride holds him in his tower.
However, there are times when we have been defeated that it is fitting for us to demand others still "come up". Most political defeats, for example, are temporary. If everyone who lost an election also completely gave up, democracies would cease to function. We can have high-minded ideals, lose an election, and keep the ideals. To continue to demand respect (for both ourselves and our ideals) we show that our support was not for political expediency but out of true conviction. It may inspire or enrage others, but politics should be messy. If no one had convictions, what could we possibly fight for?
This of course extends beyond politics. There are many social and professional and personal situations where we people should "come up". Hosting friends is a great way to strengthen bonds - you're opening yourself up, if only they'd join. If you only spend time with each other at bars or bowling alleys, so called "neutral places," the intimacy is limited.
Professionally, there are many times when we have a goal for our workplace. Speaking from my experience, I open each of my elementary school-age classes with a 5 minute welcome circle. It's a brief time for everyone to share how they are doing. My supervisors both told me I shouldn't do it because it wastes time that could be used for education. But I pushed back, saying we were building community, which had its own value, and which also would positively affect the classroom overall (children are more likely to learn in environments they are comfortable). I stood my ground, and now I am able to hold those welcome circles without interference.
Yet there are also times when we ought to "come down" to others. Humility has great value. Especially if we are trying to convince someone of our position, they are more likely to listen to our position if they like us, the messenger. We see this with Fox News, which praised Trump for doing the same thing they had previously excoriated Obama for. Not that we expect Fox to be a model of journalism anyway, but the point remains. Often our response to content is greatly colored by its delivery and deliverer.
Saruman should have come down. He has faced a stunning defeat - the Uruk-Hai have been destroyed, the Dunland men whom he stirred against Rohan have surrendered, and Isengard is in ruins. Nothing but pride holds him in his tower.
However, there are times when we have been defeated that it is fitting for us to demand others still "come up". Most political defeats, for example, are temporary. If everyone who lost an election also completely gave up, democracies would cease to function. We can have high-minded ideals, lose an election, and keep the ideals. To continue to demand respect (for both ourselves and our ideals) we show that our support was not for political expediency but out of true conviction. It may inspire or enrage others, but politics should be messy. If no one had convictions, what could we possibly fight for?
This of course extends beyond politics. There are many social and professional and personal situations where we people should "come up". Hosting friends is a great way to strengthen bonds - you're opening yourself up, if only they'd join. If you only spend time with each other at bars or bowling alleys, so called "neutral places," the intimacy is limited.
Professionally, there are many times when we have a goal for our workplace. Speaking from my experience, I open each of my elementary school-age classes with a 5 minute welcome circle. It's a brief time for everyone to share how they are doing. My supervisors both told me I shouldn't do it because it wastes time that could be used for education. But I pushed back, saying we were building community, which had its own value, and which also would positively affect the classroom overall (children are more likely to learn in environments they are comfortable). I stood my ground, and now I am able to hold those welcome circles without interference.
Yet there are also times when we ought to "come down" to others. Humility has great value. Especially if we are trying to convince someone of our position, they are more likely to listen to our position if they like us, the messenger. We see this with Fox News, which praised Trump for doing the same thing they had previously excoriated Obama for. Not that we expect Fox to be a model of journalism anyway, but the point remains. Often our response to content is greatly colored by its delivery and deliverer.
Perhaps you've heard of the sandwich method of feedback. It says superiors should advise their staff by sandwiching negative feedback with positive feedback. People are more likely to listen to negative feedback if they believe it is for their own good and not out of spite. It's why interventions require loved ones, and cannot just be by strangers.
The sandwich method shows the listener they are being noticed for what they've done right and that the speaker cares about them. The message is "You do this thing right, and that's great. Wouldn't it be great to do more things right?" It's inspiring and positive.
Knowing when one should be willing to 'come down' and when one should insist others 'come up' is important. There are times we need to stand firm on our beliefs and force people to reckon with our presence and convictions. But there are also times we should be willing to 'come down' to other people's levels and speak in a way more understanding and sympathetic towards their position. And, hey, if you 'come down' and are truly persuasive, maybe those you spoke to will 'come up' to your tower of conviction and join you. That's the power of respect.
Like this project? Want to learn more? Want exclusive access to behind-the-scenes content? Go to my Patreon site and see how you can become a part of the action!
The sandwich method shows the listener they are being noticed for what they've done right and that the speaker cares about them. The message is "You do this thing right, and that's great. Wouldn't it be great to do more things right?" It's inspiring and positive.
Knowing when one should be willing to 'come down' and when one should insist others 'come up' is important. There are times we need to stand firm on our beliefs and force people to reckon with our presence and convictions. But there are also times we should be willing to 'come down' to other people's levels and speak in a way more understanding and sympathetic towards their position. And, hey, if you 'come down' and are truly persuasive, maybe those you spoke to will 'come up' to your tower of conviction and join you. That's the power of respect.
The Lord of the Rings: An Ethical Guide is a Patreon-supported project. Thank you to all those who have contributed.
Like this project? Want to learn more? Want exclusive access to behind-the-scenes content? Go to my Patreon site and see how you can become a part of the action!
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